Steve Coerper (15 Nov 2015)
"Thoughts on "False Prophet""

 
Dear All -

As we in the eschatosphere are all well aware, November 11th has come and gone.  Some of us may have expected major events on that day, and those expectations may have been the result of the work of Ron Reese.  Of course, he was not the only one - I'm aware of several end-times "watchers" who also made predictions.

This is the second time I am aware of that Ron has named a "date certain" that came and went, and now he is being labeled a "false prophet."  I understand a YouTube video"exposing" Ron as a "false prophet" has already been posted.  I have not seen it.

I think we'd better be careful.  Being wrong on a date is not good, but "false prophet" is a VERY serious charge.  In Biblical times, it was a capital offense.  I hope you will follow me with a prayerful second look.

I think it's understood that Ron sincerely believed that some really bad stuff was going to happen on November 11th.  Let me ask each of you a question:  If you sincerely believed that something bad was going to happen, and you thought you knew when it would be and what it might be, what would you do?  If you sincerely thought your neighbor was in danger, would you warn him and, if so, why?  What would motivate you to warn him?  I would submit that Ron's activities were undergirt by love.  He truly believed, and he truly cared.

False prophets don't love and they don't care.  Read up on a few of them in the Old Testament and tell me what you see.  Pashhur?  Nice guy.  Prophets of Ba'al?  Yeah, feel the love there, too.

Ron was not in the back room ringing a cash register.  He was not on a payroll, or selling books or DVD's.  He never asked me for a dime.  All those false prophets who contended with Micaiah were on Ahab's payroll.  A bunch of paid flunkies.

Third, the message:  We all know bad stuff is due and owing to America.  We have a river of blood running through this country - fifty MILLION dead babies.  They had dead babies in Jeremiah's day, too.  Scripture said Manasseh filled Jerusalem with blood.  The false prophets back then said, "it doesn't matter.  God won't destroy this place because His temple is here."  The false prophets proclaimed a comfortable message.  Same deal in Samaria: "Go to battle, King Ahab.  You will gore the enemy until they are destroyed!"  However, the true prophet told the truth about imminent disaster, and the true prophet also spoke of the broken-hearted and betrayed God behind it.

Let's be clear about one thing.  Prophecy is not Christianized fortune-telling.  Authentic prophecy is disclosing the heart of God.  Often the prophets authenticated their message as being from God by saying or doing something that only God could be behind.  Read Wounded Lover for a better view.  We understand that hard times have come to America, and we believe things will get worse.  A true prophet tells why.  A hireling will say how nasty Obama and the Democrats are.  A prophet will say that God reluctantly raised up Obama to chastise us because God raised us up to be holy people, and we have betrayed Him.

Hardly a popular message, but it's true.

We have false prophets in America.  They are paid pulpit hirelings who declare that God just wants us to be happy, that He has lots of blessings for us, that if we just sign a card or join a church or "ask Jesus to come into our hearts" that all will be well.  NOT ONE WORD about those fifty million innocents.  "That's too upsetting."  Nothing about this country being on the very threshold of divine justice.  "We can pray 2 Chronicles 7:14 and God will relent."  You've seen and heard it and so have I. 

Guys like Ron are pleading with people to expect fierce wrath.  He got the date wrong because, frankly, some of his date-setting algorithms are unBiblical, to say the least.  But that doesn't make him a false prophet.  It makes him an object lesson, perhaps one that we all need. 

So thanks, Ron, for at least loving people enough to warn.  Thanks for not being some profiteering huckster.  Thanks for reminding people that wrath is coming, it is DESERVED, and it can no longer be avoided.  Just no more dates.  Repent of the foolish "license plate eschatology" (good advice for all of us), get away from eisegesis and get back to exegesis, and live a Spirit-filled life from now until the trumpet sounds.

Feel free to forward this as led.  And feel free to disagree with me and correct me if you think I'm wrong.

Very best,

Steve
Anakypto Forum



Comment 1: Steve, I completely agree with you, and that was very well written. Too many people today are quick to accuse well meaning Christians of being false prophets, while the real false prophets are getting rich preaching the prosperiy gospel and the Word of Faith doctrine. God bless you brother for speaking the truth!

 

Comment 2: I agree with you that the specific term "false prophet" should be carefully used. If someone says "The Lord told me," or "I received a word from The Lord" and whatever they say doesn't happen then that is a false prophet. If they say "it is a Biblical fact" and they are incorrect then they may not be a false prophet but if they are wrong again and again and again and again at some point they should be ignored. Ron Reese has picked so many dates I almost made a Ron Reese calendar where every day was his prediction at least eventually he would have been right.

It's been several months since I read Ron Reese's 11/11/15 prediction paper so I forget exactly how he stated it but I knew it was wrong then. He has no grasp of Bible prophecy and for that matter it surprises me greatly that anyone still follows him.

As far as "good intentions" did we apply your same scale to Harold Camping? His good intentions had people selling their houses and trying to give all they could to get the warning out. Did we call him a false prophet or did we say, "go easy on him because he has good intentions?"

I think Ron Reese should take Jame's advice where he says not many should be teachers. Our time is limited daily and wasting it on Ron Reese or others like him that have no clue on what they profess is just wasting the little time we do have.

One more thought about Ron Reese. You and I have our emails plastered everywhere so people can confront us, as us questions, and so on. Ron Reese's attitude is "I'm right and I might explain my point, but I'm not going to use my time to answer anything that doesn't fit my current model." That is not well intentioned. The vibe I get from his letters is arrogance. He lists all his years of study which is a joke because he obviously didn't learn much but he uses it as a badge to reinforce his theories which have all been wrong. The guy doesn't learn and doesn't want to hear from people that don't agree with him. That is not the type of person I follow.

Response: I agree on all points. I hope you will post to Five Doves with this.

Comment 3: Please do not take this email as me being "defensive," because it is not meant that way. I do not feel that this email was directed at me but rather your thoughts in general. I say that because it is clear that I have not linked to anything written by Ron Reese at all in the past several years for my own reasons. Mainly, I couldn't follow how he came to some of his conclusions. With that said, I have to totally agree with you -- Ron is not a false prophet. Not even close, and for exactly the reasons you nailed. We are in the last days, and we have been told to watch for certain events. I think living here in Oklahoma has done more to help me understand watching than any other place I've lived in the US, including right there in North Carolina. Here in Oklahoma, our weather men are pretty good at letting us know when weather conditions are setting up for trouble. Does that mean we will get severe weather outbreaks? Yes and no. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. There are times when the tor con (tornado conditions) is at a 6, and we can get ONE long track tornado that is half mile wide and wipes out just a barn and 4 cows. Other times, it can be at 3, and we will have 20 in one night that seem to be everywhere. This past May we had one night where we had to run for the storm cellar 3 times! Tornadoes were that close. We could see debris flying thru the air from the next road over as we were running. It was crazy. Our neighbor's horses were trying to jump their fencing.

All that to say, watching has never equaled 'coming to pass.' It just means pay attention. And while I did not agree with many of Ron's conclusions, I had no problem with him advising to pay attention on certain days. Like you, I think it is dangerous to label anyone who is a watcher as a 'false prophet,' and for the very reasons you give.

You could not be more right -- we have killed 50 million babies. That alone warrants judgment. Wrath is deserved.

Here is a thought I've been having concerning dates that have come and gone: they seem to be 'winnowing' out those who are looking for an excuse to not look for Jesus' return. What I mean is this: those who understand watching, those who are watchmen, will continue to watch regardless of whether or not a particular event happened on a particular day or not. We understand, like weathermen, that the conditions were setting up for trouble. This past week, when I posted about severe weather setting up from Houston to Chicago on Weds, we were told here, 60% chance of rain and some severe weather. We did not get a single drop, and not a bit of weather. However, we had winds that roared at close to 60 mph for most of the day. I have downed tree limbs, overturned yard stuff, toppled planters, and because we are at the top of a ridge, I watched my Jeep shaking back and forth so hard in the wind I would not have been surprised if by the end of the day it had been laying on its side in the driveway. What a mess! We were told it might be windy. So even professional forecasters with ginormous computers can't get it right sometimes.

I feel bad that Ron is being labeled as such, and an attempt has been made to shame him with a youtube. I don't think he deserves it, and I hope the Holy Spirit gives him a measure of peace about the matter. I do think his heart is in the right place -- he wanted to warn. For the day will come. Very few will be prepared. But like Gideon and those who joined to fight him, the Lord winnowed many of them out. I suspect that is some of what is going on now.

I am grateful you sent this email out. I've not always been sure of what you thought of watching, but now I know, and I am glad to know we have yet another area where we are in agreement.

Response: Glad you are safe.

As appropriate, you may want to extract some of your comments and insights and post them at Five Doves. It's a perspective that I think may help some of the readers there.

And at least a few people ran to their dictionaries to look up "eschatosphere."

As you know, I don't do combat radio or attack journalism, in any of its forms. At least, I don't do so intentionally. I simply wanted to clarify the very SERIOUS charge of "false prophet" and extend a little grace to Ron. Mostly, I could not endure his logic, and like many, I found him to be arrogant. But I'm hoping he learned his lesson, and I'm also hoping that, unlike the Harold Camping episode, no one sold their house or quit their job because they believe Ron's conjectures. Christians are kind of known for shooting their wounded. Jesus sees that, too.

 

Comment 4: I have not read many of Ron's past emails, but when I've skimmed his past ones & read this one, I've been concerned that he keeps quoting Luciferian NWO numbers as though they are a source of prophetic truth, mixing Satanic symbols & numbers with Scripture.

Now I see he is overly focused on himself, on his "my ministry" (haven't we heard that before?!--isn't it for Christ?), & definitely he's claiming, "MY LORD HAS GIVEN ME A PERSONAL SUPERNATURAL 7--YEAR WARNING."

So I've wondered,

[1] is he a deliberate false teacher in satan's kingdom out to confuse people, make false predictions supposedly from the Bible (mixed with superstition & Satanic deception, twisting & taking Scripture out of context like Satan did when tempting Jesus)--all to discredit the Bible & real disciples of Christ? I don't know. I've wondered the same thing about "Renee Moses."--again I don't know. or

[2] is he an emotionally-based charismatic believer or non-believer with a primary mood disorder & a secondary thought disorder (today's email is emotion-based) using Bible verses (along with numbers, & satanic dates) as emotionally-ladened concepts to express basically his emotional states to bolster his underlying feelings of inadequacy? or

[3] is he a deceived or self-deceived but well-meaning insecure person who craves attention for "my ministry" as he emphasizes, really believing what he writes as a boost to his low view of himself, but lacking understanding of proper interpretation of Scripture? and,

[4] now today's email is clear he is saying he is delivering a specific prophetic message he received from God supernaturally--now speaking as a prophet, so yes, the Biblical definition of "false prophet" is in clear view if he is not a genuine believer suffering from a serious psychological disorder.

One would need to interview him in person at length to sort out the root of his faulty reasoning in his writings.

Clearly we know from Scripture that a Holy Spirit filled person would not be writing false predictions and faulty reasoning and basing prediction in part on satanic numerology.

 

Comment 5-A: I'm thinking you are a christian liberal.

Liberal political leaders know the falsehood of what they teach, but the liberal masses live in a world of fantasy, they think they are doing good by banning guns, and accepting homosexuality, promoting minorities over those more qualified and so forth.........

Your defense of Ron Reese strikes me as the same silly sentimentalism. You use some of the same idiotic rationality: "he sincerely believed" "undergirt by love" blah blah blah

Are you stupid or what?

I've been watching the false prophets like Ron Reese and Marilyn Agee for 20 years, and they do tremendous harm. How many people now have lost interest in watching after these idiots who are certain of the date only to see it come and go. You should pay attention to how quickly they move on to being absolutely certain about the next date.

1 Cor 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

These people have been blowing a false alarm for years and years. The answer is not to cover for them, to make excuses for them. It is to ignore them, to point them out as false prophets so that others will ignore them before they can do any more damage.

1 timothy 5:22 Do not lay hands upon anyone too hastily and thereby share responsibility for the sins of others; keep yourself free from sin.

You dare to go so far as to thank Ron for this false prophecy because he "loved people enough to warn" That is a most ridiculous and dangerous statement.

Take your hands off of these guys and quickly as you are sharing in their sins.

Just where and when did you come up with this foolish premise that good intentions over rule evil outcome?

I suggest you stop thinking this is christian nursery school and begin to think of your brothers as mature warriors in the faith. We don't need people like you to make excuses for error, we need people who stand up for truth, righteousness and to confront evil rather than justify it.

How will a person correct their ways if you say it is ok and cover for them?

Do I sound a bit angry, you bet I am, and so long as you promote and defend these guys I am going to oppose you and them.

 

Response: Thanks for your comments. My point was simply that Ron's well-intended (we must assume, since there was no money motivation) stupidity did not sink to the Biblical level of "false prophet." Perhaps I erred on the side of love, since clearly Ron has problems with arrogance, rudeness, and a few other flaws. It was certainly not my intent to either promote or defend these guys.

And he is continuing - having written another email with a 21-day fudge factor, encouraging any who still listen to him to bear with him a little longer.

I've discussed "dreams and visions" and "license plate theology" many times, so you should know I put no stock in any of that sort of divination or unbiblical foolishness. I was not defending Ron's major premises, that God spoke to him by supernaturally causing his watch to stop, or that God spoke to all of us by causing 21 comet fragments to plow into Jupiter in 1994.

As for the litany of activities of liberal political leaders, I oppose all of that. I think banning guns is a serious and treasonous activity, I think the income tax is Marxist evil, that sodomy is a sin against God, (that birth control pills are a sin against God, and IUD's and all the rest of "family planning"), and so forth.

Ron has issues. One of my seasoned correspondents (a doctor), wrote:

    [1] is he a deliberate false teacher in satan's kingdom out to confuse people, ...? I don't know. I've wondered the same thing about "Renee Moses."--again I don't know. or

    [2] is he an emotionally-based charismatic believer or non-believer with a primary mood disorder & a secondary thought disorder...? or

    [3] is he a deceived or self-deceived but well-meaning insecure person who craves attention ...? and,

    [4] now today's email ... the Biblical definition of "false prophet" is in clear view if he is not a genuine believer suffering from a serious psychological disorder.

    One would need to interview him in person at length to sort out the root of his faulty reasoning in his writings. Clearly we know from Scripture that a Holy Spirit filled person would not be writing false predictions and faulty reasoning and basing prediction in part on satanic numerology.

We have basically one option: tune him out. I think excoriation is an improper response. And while I think Ron's work is seriously flawed, I think it's probably a mistake to label him "false prophet" and then give a pass to all the real false prophets in the pulpits of America.

If you've lost faith in me, I understand. I was trying to be both gracious and Biblically precise. Apparently, I missed the mark.

Comment 5-B: That reply made me smile. Thanks for reading and thinking about what I had to say.

Most of the time I like what you have to say and also enjoyed your post about the missile launch.

If I could just re address a couple of things, I think you are making an error in your definition of what a false prophet is, it seems to me you have qualified a false prophet in several ways, such as having deliberate motive, thus you refuse to apply the term except to those having YOUR qualifications.

Deut. 18:22

"When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously."

It seems to me from Jeremiah that there is some exception for the person who prophecies judgment and then it does not come to pass due to God relenting after the people repent, but I can find no other exceptions, especially none which would apply to people who prophecy rapture dates and other good happenings as certain.

Also I can't find any reason why it would let off the worse of the false prophecy offenders by including the lesser, for example we might feel more sympathy for the person who gets a traffic ticket for going 6 mph over the limit when comparing them to the person going 100mph over, but they both still get the ticket according to the law.

Further, I don't think we need to have the why to judge the what. There is nothing wrong with speculating or studying why a guy (or woman) make statements of supposed fact which are false.

However the why never changes the outcome. Consider the mark of the beast, I figure there will be any number of reasons why people will take the mark of the beast, some out of love for their family and only to get food for them, some having been deceived, and some deliberately in the face of God.

Do you think any of them will get mercy? Not according to scripture. Then should we "err on the side of love" and tell people that it might be ok to take the mark of the beast if done with a sincere motive? I think not.

Ok best wishes,

Your friend,

 

Response: You have raised a number of excellent points, and I truly appreciate your insights and feedback. I hope you will post the salient points on Five Doves.

You and I both know there is plenty of just-plain-goofiness in the eschatosphere and I hope my letter is not construed as an apologetic for any of it.

I did a BlueLetterBible search for scriptures that deal with the death penalty for false prophets, and I found the most relevant verses in Deuteronomy:

But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has spoken in order to turn you away from the LORD your God... Deut. 13:5

This looks motivational - that the false prophet has spoken "in order to turn you away from the LORD your God." I don't think that was either the intent or the result of Ron's efforts.

But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die. Deut 18:20

We have both seen people - Renee Moses comes to mind - who claim to have DIRECT PERSONAL VISITS from Jesus. "The Lord appeared to me in my bedroom last Wednesday night, and He said to me, 'Tell My children that ....' " and then some ambiguous exhortation, and sometimes a date or some event that will happen. And the date comes and goes and is quickly forgotten. As far as I know (and I haven't read most of Ron's stuff so I don't know), Ron has not claimed anything like this. His "ministry" has consisted of watching events, signs in the heavens, numerical patterns in scripture and the like, and then using his own algorithms and necessary "fudge factors," concluding some event ("my wristwatch stopped for five minutes") that he insists "the Lord is showing him" what this means. The subjectivity and silliness is out there for everyone to see, and none of this is offered to induce people to go a-whoring after other gods. None of it is used to justify sin.

I'm really okay with being challenged, and I'm REALLY okay with being corrected if I'm wrong.

Comment 5-C: This has been an enjoyable exchange, thank you for your time. I pretty much agree with you on most issues. I would agree that it seems not the intent of Reese to turn people away from the Lord but it is the result, I don't know the extent or amount of damage he has done, but we have one friend who while maybe she hasn't left the Lord she has drawn back considerably, seems to me that her departure can be linked directly to Marilyn Agee who we all studied a lot in the 90's reading her books and pondering her ideas. Agee is not Reese but the spirit is the same (small s) they both have the arrogant foolishness to walk where angels fear to tread, that is to teach lies as if they are truth. I would not call for them to be put to death for that, but are you so sure that God would not? Certainly making themselves teachers they come under stricter judgment.

Consider Ananias and Sapphira , all they did was tell a small lie, decreasing the actual price that they sold their property for. They had no intent to harm anyone they just wanted to gain a little respect, seems oddly similarly to the reasoning behind marilyn agee and her constant assuredness of the next rapture date. Consider Uzzah all he did was reach out his hand to steady the ark which was possibly going to fall onto the ground, he meant no ill will to anyone that I can see.

 

Comment 6: Yes, you are certainly right that Ron's mistakes do not equal the Biblical definition of a false prophet. And the YouTube clip I alerted you to did not contain any Scriptural definition of a false prophet. It's amazing how so many people identifying themselves as Christians with the "truth" quickly hop onto a computer and broadcast their opinions without doing their Biblical homework first.

I thought you were crystal clear that you were not excusing Ron's flaky "eschatology" but being gracious, loving, and holding to a Biblical definition of false prophet.

 

Comment 7: I read your excellent letter on Five Doves this morning. Those of us like Ron Reese are not false prophets because we are not making prophecies, but rather we are trying to understand prophecy and make it a topic of discussion. The mistake most make who are date-setters like Ron, and myself, do not anchor their musing in Scripture, but rather they anchor them in conjecture. Stick to Scripture and you won't go wrong !

GOOD LETTER !

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