When Palestinian Christians are attacked by Israelis, whose side should we take?

My Conversation With Diane

Steve Coerper

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly, But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit.

   Dr. Chuck Missler

Diane:  I am getting back to you per your message.  These topics are kind of freaking me out a bit but I want to learn more...and we must all pray for discernment in these times. I fear just about everything we are told is a lie -- by both sides (left and right).

Are you a Berean member? I do enjoy Missler's teaching, but I don't listen to him exclusively. There are many fine teachers out there.

Steve:  Thanks for the reply. I don't recall everything I wrote in my note, so may repeat myself a bit.

Do you ever listed to R.C. Sproul? He's currently doing a series on the Holiness of God, and I think the church has really dropped the ball (at least the churches here in Raleigh have) regarding the character of God. God is NOT "Santa Claus" and I think many of our so-called "worship" services are really disrespectful of His majesty.

One of the most high-impact scriptures is Matthew 28:18 where Jesus said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me." If we really believed that, we would live differently.

Missler has a great deal of knowledge, and respect for the scriptures. I wish he'd do his homework on the Jews, however, instead of just assuming that everyone who claims to be a Jew is a descendent of Jacob. Even the scriptures warn us TWICE concerning the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not (Rev 2:9 and 3:9). Most of the Israelis (note: not "Israelites" which is the Biblical name) are Gentiles, descended from the middle European Khazar kingdom. They have NO Biblical claim to the land, and this "fulfillment of prophecy" is, in my mind, a rather dubious claim.

Harold (Hal) Lindsey

Hal Lindsey wrote extensively on this, and he helped shape the eschatology of a whole generation of Christians. As you know, he expected the return of Christ within a generation of 1948 - a generation being "40 years or so." Then the starting date was moved to 1967 because 1) that's when the "Jews" captured Jerusalem, and 2) 1988 came and went with no parousia. That moves the return to 2007 or so. Missler thinks it very likely that Christ will return this year.

Will Jesus return in 2007? WE DON'T KNOW! Eschatology is not, nor has it ever been, tomorrow's news today. Too many of these scholars have a Bible in one hand and Time Magazine in the other. If Jesus wanted us to know when he would return, he would have told us. Instead, he told us specifically that no man knows the day or the hour; not the angels or even the Son.

The Judeo-Christian nexus is political, not spiritual. Talmudic Jews believe Jesus is in torments in the deepest pit of Hell. We believe He is the exalted Son of God, and that He rules and reigns. What fellowship does our light have with their darkness? But many of our Christian leaders support the Zionist state anyway, because they believe these modern-day "Jews" are somehow still God's chosen people. Jesus didn't believe that, nor did His Father. Read Wars of the Jews by Flavius Josephus and you'll realize that even unbelievers knew that God destroyed Jerusalem and the Jewish people in 70 AD.

In short, our Christian leaders (and the political puppeteers who pull their strings) are pushing a fake eschatology and a theology of fear. "Purpose-Driven" theology was designed by professional marketers, and will fill the churches with unbelievers.

Diane:  Oh my gosh.  I typed an incredibly long and involved reply to your email -- and the computer gremlins made it "not send."  It disappeared!  I have to regroup now and get back to you later.  It was good too--all about 70 AD, why it happened, the 70 weeks of Daniel, etc. and my thoughts on other things.  Perhaps, for my own safety, the mail was lost.  I have to look at it that way.  OOOh fa!

Steve:  Don't you just HATE IT when that happens??

I have suspected for a while that the Lord is quietly drawing His true believers out of the "organized" (i.e. Laodicean) churches and putting us into small house-churches or something like that. The more the churches market themselves, the more appalled I become.

Check out the Library at Roger Sherman Society, and look under "The Church." Plenty of food for thought.

Diane:  I'm going to try this again. First, I am familiar with Hal Lindsey, RC Sproul and others. There are so many good teachers and preachers out there -- most have the same theology, some differences here and there but all good for learning from.

I do think there are real Jews in the land. That Israel became a nation again, as a testament that God is still on the Throne. That we, as a nation, must always back Israel, for the day we don't, we're done for. Remember Genesis 12:2,3? "I shall bless those that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee?"

70 AD destruction of the city and the temple happened because the Jews did not know "the day of their visitation." The Lord held them accountable to know the prophecy in Daniel 9 and they did not recognize their Messiah. Because of this, they were destroyed and scattered.

I think some Gentiles converted to Judaism but there are real descendents of Jacob around somewhere.  Who then, are the remnant of believing Jews who will realize their offense and petition the Lord's return during the last week?

Yes there is a lukewarm church.  I believe that.  I also believe things are close now.  My other thoughts were about conspiracies regarding 9/11 and other events, and some of these things may actually make sense.

Isn't the god of this world the father of lies?  Therefore, why should we assume anything we hear is the truth?  Even from the Republican right?

I was also saying I have a hard time reading due to macular degeneration.  I have a collection of books -- Josephus one of them, I find very difficult to read now -- even with a magnifier.  I still drive to work -- and that's scary too. Can't get a ride any other way. I'm pushing the envelope everyday!

Steve:  Check out http://www.missiontoisrael.org/gods-covenant-people/chapter4.php and tell me what you think.

Diane:  I honestly don't know what to think. I have often wondered about the "religion" Jewish versus the nationality Jewish and wondered if they were the same or different. So, are we to think there are no real Israelites left?

Or is this just another satanically inspired attack against the chosen people? I am at a loss! I tell you, my core beliefs, or assumptions, are being sorely tested.

This is from a friend of mine, after sharing the link about the Jews you sent me. Please read and let me know if anything changes for you.

Thanks for the link. This is what is known as replacement theology. The author's intent (his spirit at least) is evident in the following quotes:

This same article later admitted that since "...the Jews of Poland and eastern Europe are of largely Khazar? Jewish, rather than Semitic? Jewish origin," and "Because many American Jews trace their lineage to these countries," many scholars have concluded that this "disturbs the concept of a chosen people [from today's Jews] extending back to Abraham."

Diane, that would mean that God is no longer able to fulfill His promises regarding the nation Israel. Satan would have won.

In his book From Pharaoh to Hitler, 'What Is A Jew?", Bernard Joseph Brown, another Jew, admitted that since the Jews of today are not Israelites, they have no claim to the land of Judea:
Being consciously Jewish is the lowest kind of chauvinism [excessive patriotism], for it is the only chauvinism that is based on false premises.

Do you see anything Anti-Semitic about these comments?

The early Sephardic settlers, for example, left practically no descendants who are still Jewish.... They disappeared not because they intermarried but because they refused to intermarry ... without sufficient choice among their own, they remained unmarried and died out.... choosing extinction rather than assimilation.

So, once again, God would not be able to fulfill His promises to Abraham to plant his seed in the land that God had showed Him (Canaan) forever. Satan's goal has always been to annihilate the Jew. This is more evidence of that.

Not only does the Bible warn. us, but the Jews themselves also confess that today's Khazar Jews are imposters. Consequently, we Christian Americans no longer have any excuse for perpetrating or financing the lie that the modem-day Jews are either Judahites or Israelites.

This site makes much of the khazars. I think the healthiest attitude to adopt is to let God sort out who the true Israelites are. We know for fact that He is going to raise up 144,000 Jews (12,000 from each tribe) in the last days to be His witnesses. So, no need to worry, they are not extinct, and the Father knows who they are.

God said, "Beware of those who call themselves Jews and are not, for they lie [Rev. 3:9]."  Could it be the Ashkenazi Jews are the people to whom God was referring?


Um, no, I don't think so. Jesus called the Pharisees sons of Satan. I think the synagogue of Satan is anybody who tries to claim the favor of God based on human lineage (or racial purity). The ironic thing to me is that this is precisely what the author of this site tries to do in saying that the Celto-Saxons are the true Israelites. At least that is my impression from skimming the other chapters. As seen below, in just one of many such statements by the author:

Thus says YHWH, "Sing aloud with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chiefs of the nations; proclaim, give praise, and say, 'O YHWH, save Thy people, the remnant of Israel.' "...I [YHWH] am bringing them [Israel] from the north country, and I will gather them from the remote parts of the earth, among them the blind and the lame, the woman with child and she who is in labor with child, together; a great company, they shall return here. With weeping they shall come, and by supplication I will lead them; I will make them walk by streams of waters, on a straight path in which they shall not stumble; for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim [the house of Israel] is My first-born." Hear the word of YHWH, O nations, and declare in the coastlands afar off, and say, He [YHWH] who scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock." (Jeremiah 31:7-10)

Diane, my advice to your friend would be to read the Biblical account of Abraham beginning at Genesis 12. There is a lot of Anti-Semitism in the world today, just as there was in the days of Hitler. I assure you, it is not of God.

Steve:  I think your friend is correct in rejecting (as I also do) the notion that the "Celto-Saxons" are now Israel, however, his other conclusions are unwarranted. There may still be a number of people who are physically descended from Jacob, and who God may yet raise up as a nation. But what we are seeing today in Palestine is simply a Satanic counterfeit. SOME of the Jews who are there are Semitic people, but most of them, and nearly all who have political power, are Gentile descendents of Europeans; not even Semitic people. There is nothing anti-Semitic about calling these people what they are, or in opposing the atrocities they are performing while claiming (or allowing American Judeo-Christians to claim for them) that they are the Chosen People.

I certainly agree that we should "let God sort out who the true Israelites are," but Paul gave us explicit clues. In Romans 2:28-29 we read:

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

In Romans 9:6-8, Paul wrote:

Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:  Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.  That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

God's covenant with Abraham was based on faith, not on race.(Romans 4:11-12). Abraham was the father of those who received righteousness through faith, and also the "father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith." That's why Jesus (John 8:37-44) acknowledged the Jews' physical descendency from Abraham and, at the same time, said that Abraham was not their father. All they had was genealogy; they didn't have faith. Therefore, they weren't (by their own choice) partakers in the Abrahamic covenant (a covenant of faith), though they claimed to be. Like these Khazars of today, they were claiming to be God's chosen people. Unlike the Khazars, they at least had genealogy. Most of today's "Jews" have neither. Go down to your local synagogue and ask the folks what they think about Jesus.

Try visiting the land of Israel and preaching the gospel, and see what happens. Or ask a Talmudic Jew where he thinks Jesus is today.

Read Josephus. The lie that the Jewish leaders used to persuade many people to stay in Jerusalem was "we are God's people. He will deliver us!" Jesus, while under oath before the Sanhedrin, told the high priest that they would see Him (Jesus) sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven." And Caiaphas then had the gall to accuse the Son of God of committing blasphemy!

I'm not for hatred, except for hating those things God says He hates.  I am definitely opposed to a false eschatology that limits God and emasculates (or eviscerates) disciples.  Opposing the oppressive political agenda of a group of people who hate Jesus is not anti-semitism by a long shot.  Don't judge by appearances, but judge righteous judgment.(John 7:24)

In short, a bunch of Gentile people decided, for political reasons, to embrace the religion of Judaism (the outward forms, not the faith) several hundred years ago.  These people survive today and still claim to be Jews.  A lot of people believe them, but some don't.  Those who don't are "anti-Semitic" even though those they oppose are not Semitic people.

Romans 2:28-29

Diane:  You know I am not certain about anything lately. So I'm going to be like Paul and say I know nothing but Christ and Him crucified.
There are many who think this information about the Jews is anti semitic.  I also can see your point  —  today's Jews do hate Christ.  But didn't He say they would be blinded for a time?  And that at the end of the 7th week (Jacob's trouble) they would realize their error and petition His return?
I think, instead of getting into a debate over this issue, we should stand together and pray and witness to our unsaved loved ones and friends?  Maybe this is yet another plot to weaken and divide the Church?!

I think, in the end, the Lord knows who His people are, amen?

Steve:  Yes, in the end (and all times between) the Lord knows those who are his.  But I think it a grievious error to blindly support what the leadership in the modern state of Israel is doing, simply because they claim (and we choose to believe) that they have some special relationship with God.  The scriptures indicate that they forfeited that a long time ago, and that those Jews who chose to remain in covenant with God were placed in the church, where they were joined by Gentiles who, likewise, trusted God by trusting Christ.

Let's also bear in mind that many of the people on the receiving end of the Jews' hostility are CHRISTIANS, that is, our blood-bought brothers and sisters who were won to Christ by the difficult labors of many, many missionaries who went to Islamic or other culturally hostile areas and worked for years to lead people to Christ.  For these, the question of Zionism or the chosen-ness of the Jews isn't theological speculation or something in the newspaper.  It's Israeli tanks coming through their streets, and Israeli bombs (we don't read much about them, do we?) killing their children.  It's also Pres. Bush sending American troops to the middle east to fight Israel's enemies for them.  Truly a mess of Biblical proportions.

Let everyone be persuaded in his own mind.

That being laid to rest, let's consider salvation for a while.  Do you think God loves everybody in general, or that He loves some people in particular, and hates some in particular?  Does God hate the sin and love the sinner?  Or does he hate some sinners?

Did God choose you specifically and particularly, to be an object of His eternal love and grace? Or did you choose Him?

Diane:  There is a thing called predestination.  I think God foreknew who would believe and who wouldn't, and therefore chooses people.  I believe He chose me, yes.  I am thankful for that.  He is not willing that any should perish but come to faith in Jesus Christ.  So, no He does not hate anyone, He hates sin, and what sin has done and caused throughout the ages.  Hell was never created for man, but for the devil and his angels.  Yet, man chooses Hell when he rejects God's gift of salvation.  I believe, The Lord would accompany a soul right to Hell's gate, pleading with that soul to repent.  Once that individual passes through, however, it is too late.

If God hated anyone, would He have given all?  Yet while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.  He died for the very ones who crucified Him, and for the very thieves hurling insults at Him, and by the power of the Cross, some did repent.  The centurion on duty, one of the thieves, who that day, went to Paradise with Jesus.  No He does not hate anyone.  It cost Him 6 days to create the world.  It cost Him everything to redeem the world(man).

Very little is devoted to the work of creation.  The volume of the Book is about (Him) God's plan of redemption.

Steve:  I'm glad you have the "Berean attitude" and am very happy that you have been able to state your understandings so clearly.  It's obvious to me that we have both come from the same sort of theological background, so you should have no problem understanding what I share, even though there may be a bit of cognitive dissonance as you search these things out.  But when you do, you'll wind up a lot more settled in your faith.  Unfortunately, you may also have a lot less confidence in teachers and pastors you formerly trusted.  At least, that was my experience.

Having said that, let's search a few scriptures.

One of the reasons Jesus came was to reveal the Father.  To this end, He told many parables:  "The Kingdom of God is like ....." and then he would give an illustration.  A king was giving a wedding feast for his son, but those who were invited refused to come, so he sent his army and destroyed their city.  (Matt 22:1-8).  Same story in Luke 14  —  those who were invited and who refused didn't get a second chance, or begging and pleading from the Father.

God might have looked down the "corridor of time" to see, in advance, who would believe.  If so, he saw that NO ONE would believe.  Contrary to pop theology, there is still none that does righteousness, none that seeks after God.  ALL have gone astray; none has done right, not even one.  So the idea that someone would, of his own free will, CHOOSE to repent and submit to God is completely foreign to both the old and new testaments.  (Romans 3:10-17).  The so-called "seeker sensitive" approach to church is fatally flawed at this point.

But the visible church has come to embrace "seeker-sensitivity" because its leadership has abandoned the idea of a holy God, and instead has offered a deity whose transcending trait is love.  Yes, God is love, but He is also holy, and righteous, and just.  Your idea that He would "accompany a soul to Hell's gate, pleading with that soul to repent" is an affront to God's majesty.  That "god" does not exist, and to picture Him as being that way is erroneous at best, and at worst idolatrous.

Pop theology doesn't seem to take the issue of sin all that seriously, either.  "Sin" is not simply an item in a catalogue of activities that God prefers we not engage in.  We are sinners at our core, and when we commit sin, we simply display what we are.  What we are, by nature, is children of wrath.  Doing the "right" thing with the wrong motive is still sin.  Just like a goldfish isn't aware of his wetness, we are not aware of our sinfulness because it's so natural to us.  That's the true state of man:  Of ourselves and by ourselves, we are hopelessly sinful and spiritually dead.  Physically, we are in total rebellion against God.  We are not "sick" from sin, but still able of our own free will to either accept or reject the "cure" that God offers in Christ.  We are dead in trespasses and sins.  DEAD.

Jesus said, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him."  (John 6:44)  "Draw" is an interesting word, as it means "compel by force."  It never means "persuade."  This word is used at Acts 16:19 when the masters of the servant girl dragged ("drew") Paul and Silas to the magistrates.  Unfortunately, we are (by nature) very resistant to the idea that we are so corrupt and rebellious that God must use force to bring us to repentance, but that's what the Bible teaches.  The Sovereign God of the Bible does not implore, or plead, or beg His mere creatures for anything.  He is God.

When I believed that men needed to be persuaded to be saved, I necessarily believed that if I DIDN'T witness obediently, people could wind up in Hell and it would be MY FAULT.  That's a pretty heavy load of baggage for anyone.  Don't misunderstand - I still believe in obedience, and in being a faithful witness.  But I don't believe the gospel must be "sold" or that men must be persuaded and then "make a decision for Christ" or "ask Jesus into their heart" to be saved.  That's a formula for disaster.

My study of things God hates turned up a few surprises.  According to Psalm 5:5, He hates all workers of iniquity.  It doesn't say He hates the iniquity but loves the worker.  Similarly, He hates those who sow discord among brethren (Prov 6:16).  God hated Esau (though some question what "hated" means in this context).  It's clear, however, that God raised up Pharaoh for the express purpose of pouring out His wrath on him (Romans 9:17).  That to say this - God is Sovereign, and His justice is not compromised if He chooses to save some and not others.  Salvation is totally of His mercy, and God can be merciful to some and not to all if He chooses.  (Romans 9:15).  He will have mercy on some, and some He will harden.  Not everyone receives mercy, but no one receives injustice.  God is simply not REQUIRED to save everyone.  Paul speaks of God desiring to display His wrath and make His power known against vessels of wrath PREPARED FOR DESTRUCTION.  This is a real offense to modern, seeker-sensitive "Christianity" but it's what the Bible says (Romans 9:22)  —  God prepared some people for the express purpose of pouring out His wrath on them.

This, and not God's view "down the corridor of time" is the core of predestination.  And it drives the "Four Spiritual Laws" crowd crazy because it strips mere man of his control, and leaves salvation and everything else where it properly belongs:  in the hands of God.

If you haven't heard R.C. Sproul expound on these issues, I strongly encourage you to invest 20 minutes each day to listening to his programs on these topics.  His radio archive goes back 30 days, but I have about 18 months of links on my site, organized topically.  Since you have some vision problems, this might be a more realistic approach.

Diane:  I have some questions for you.  First, what are your credentials, if any?  I don't mean to offend, but I'm wondering what your background is--any schooling in this area?  If not, that's okay.  If you are someone who studies Scripture and takes God at His word, that's okay.  He means what He says and says what He means.  Next question--is only RC Sproul credible and no one else?  I respect his teachings and do listen to him when I can.  He comes on at 2:30pm weekdays.

Perhaps I wasn't clear about what I said either.  I wasn't implying that God begs anyone to be saved.  I believe, there are instances when something like this happens.  For instance, I saw this program on TV.  Mind you, a lot of it is drivel but this one guy was talking about his near death experience.  It sounded like he was on his way "below" if you know what I mean.  He was going into darkness and these things were beginning to torment him.  Then he got this strong impression to pray to God for help, so he did.  After that, he was back alive again and seemingly, given another chance.  I don't know the outcome.  Did he repent and ask forgiveness for sin?  Did he turn his life around and choose to serve God?  I don't know, but it seems possible that some are given another chance.  Maybe it wasn't his time yet, you know?  That's where I got that from.

Yes God is just, holy, and by these qualities must judge sin.

I also believe He is merciful.  It seems your position leaves no room for mercy.  What about the prodigal son?  Didn't the Father run TO the son?  Is this not a picture of the mercy, love and grace of God?  Yes I believe He chooses some and not others for salvation.  So where does this leave us?  Are you saying we're not saved?  I think the pews are full of folks who think they're saved and are not.  And the road is indeed very narrow and few find it.  So, are we lost on some broad road?  Who then is saved?  Who then are the real Jews, or the real Christians for that matter?  Jesus warned about false teachers and warns us to not be deceived, that even the elect could be deceived, if it were possible.  I guess so!

Do you attend a church?  Do you follow any denomination in particular?  I was going to a church that focused on the gifts.  Not like the pentacostals or assemblies of God, but it was going in that direction.  There was a lot of freedom and some of it was good and refreshing but then, I heard from other sources that these were not actual moves of the Spirit but more moves of the flesh.  That things like holy laughter, dancing, roaring like lions, etc. were not scriptural.  In a way, that made me feel better because I never experienced any of those things and always felt left out or worse, like I wasn't saved.  Now I think, well, maybe it wasn't real and that's why I never experienced any of that.  I never fell down or anything.  Did a lot of crying though!

Steve:  My credentials: none. My background: B.A. degree in Biblical Studies, some brief post-graduate work through Trinity Seminary, 30+ years of fairly intense personal Bible study and church involvement in various churches, para-church organizations, and non-denominational fellowships.

RC Sproul is not the only credible teacher. I just suggested him because his stuff is easy to find, he is a skilled teacher, and he is particularly strong on soteriology and on the holiness of God.

I tried as much as possible to anchor my comments on what the scriptures plainly say or unmistakeably imply, mostly for a reason that you gave and that Chuck Missler constantly affirms: that in the last days, deceit will be rampant. A program on TV or someone's experiences do not have the credibility of the word of God, as you know.

You said my position leaves no room for mercy, but that is incorrect. My position leaves no room for human merit. We are all guilty before God, and because of God's mercy, He chooses to save some of us. If there were no mercy, we would all receive justice and no one would be saved.

The Prodigal Son is an illustration of forgiveness, not salvation. The son was and remained a son. The father did not go down to the pig sty and offer the benefits of sonship to everyone else who was down there.

Your exact statement was, "I believe, The Lord would accompany a soul right to Hell's gate, pleading with that soul to repent." I thought I was taking your comment at face value. Jesus had a discussion with a certain rich young ruler, as you know (Luke 18:24) and when he went away sorrowful, Jesus did not go after him and beg him to reconsider. And if men won't listen to Moses and the prophets, they won't repent even if someone were to return from the dead (Luke 16:30-31).

I'm not going to argue second chances. The Bible speaks of several people who died and were brought back: a certain 12-year-old girl, Lazarus, the son of the widow at Nain, Paul (stoned and left for dead at Lystra), Eutychus, and Dorcas come to mind. The Bible doesn't say if this was their "second chance" or a continuation of their "first chance." There is nothing that indicates a change of heart following any of these resurrections. Lazarus, Paul, Eutychus and Dorcas were all "good guys" when they died, and all presumably continued their "good guy" lifestyles. For the other two, we don't know, and it would be clearly inappropriate to speculate, then build a doctrine on the speculation. In my opinion, a made-for-TV religious spectacle is likewise inappropriate source material for making decisions of such gravity.

God, in His sovereignty, and for reasons entirely within Himself, elects some people who are justly condemned to be saved. This means their past sins are forgiven, their future sins are forgiven, they are given a new nature that cannot sin, and they are given grace to bear the consequences of the sins they commit. Then, because they are given the righteousness of Christ, they also have access to the Father. It's a major package, as you know. Those people whom God saves are also given faith to believe (Ephesians 2:8). Chuck Missler makes a big deal of this verse; and rightly so - it IS a big deal. God gives those He saves the gift of faith! Through that faith we are made whole, complete, and perfect in His sight. That's one way we can KNOW we are saved.

You are most probably correct that the pews are full of people who think they are saved, but aren't. Easy-believism and seeker-sensitivity guarantee it, and Jesus says as much in Matthew 7:23. We make a big deal out of "knowing Jesus" or "accepting Christ." On that day, Jesus will say, "I never knew you." All those "good works" and all that churchianity won't help.

A Pentecostal preacher I knew told of an old preacher he knew who said, "I don't care how high you jump, as long as you walk straight when you hit the ground." That is, don't impress me with your religious exuberance on Sunday morning; live an authentic Christian life. I think about a third of all Americans claim to have had some sort of "born-again" experience. Clearly, we are not a nation that is one-third authentic Christians. The ethical lapses within the organized church are legion, as you know. "Holy laughter," "roaring like lions" and similar antics don't impress Christ, and authentic worship still rests on a foundation of obedience. That being said, there is precious little authentic worship going on in America, and you probably know that, too.

Still, there is great hope. When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; [it is] that they shall be destroyed for ever. (Psalm 92:7). God is not pacing the floor in Heaven, wringing His hands and wondering what to do next. Jesus Christ has all power and all authority. He is able to save to the uttermost those who come to God by him (Hebrews 7:25).

Diane:  I see you have a lot of knowledge under your belt. I have none, really. I need to read more but I don't because I find it so difficult, but I should study more and definately pray. I'm like a spomge. I soak up all the teaching I can but it should not be in lieu of my own study. I don't listen to Chuck Missler exclusively, though I do enjoy his style and feel like I've learned a lot. I also enjoy Eugene McGee, J. Vernon McGee, Swindoll, John MacArthur, Hal Lindsey, RC, Chuck Smith and many others, some not so nationally known, including pastors I know. ( And a few of them have very different views on certain topics), but none of this takes the place of my own study. I have asked God for discernment in these times and I have in my mind the desire to know more. Maybe all this is an answer for me. In the past couple of weeks, I have come across some things that have caused me to reconsider a few things...and I wonder why. Why now? And what for?

I did not mean to imply that you are a false teacher. I hope you don't think that. I have a feeling that it won't be long now. Could be wrong but things are beginning to seem weird to me and I am questioning a few things now that I wasn't considering before.

My post on the YMMSS site was really in reference to things I've been reading regarding 9/11 and the government and some other things.

And look now at what's become of that! I'm glad I "met" you Steve. I might learn something, though I'm still not entirely convinced about the Jews. Can I ask you this: If these people aren't the real Jews, why would satan try to destroy them? Hasn't that been his agenda all along? And here is a silly question I have always pondered: Back in the Bible days, the Hebrews had names like, well they had lots of names but their last names, (if they had them) were ben Judah or ben so and so or bar Jonah. So where did names like Schwartz and anything stein or berg or stern, come from?? I'm not being anti Jew or "fresh" I just always wondered that. There were no Goldbergs in the Bible but there were Aarons and Moses and David and Levy and Simon etc. I don't know. Maybe I'm really off the target now. And, do you think there is no mercy or salvation for these people? There are probably many sincere Jews out there--Khozar background or no. They/ve been raised in this faith and this is all they know. Of these, some even believe in Y'Shua as Messiah. So are they wrong because they're not descended from Abraham? And just being in the line of Abraham isn't the criteria either. People of the Islamic faith claim to be descendents too. I'm sure you will explain.

Steve:  I'm glad you are finding these thoughts worth considering. I'll briefly pass on one final insight that may clarify things a bit more.

Because we tend to believe in what is commonly called "cheap grace," while at the same time resisting anything that looks like "legalism," we have become very antinomian. Jesus said, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments," and asked "Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord' but do not do what I say?" (Luke 6:46). The issue, of course, is obedience. We have tended to replace obedience with head-knowledge. If you have head-knowledge of something, you can pass a written test on it. If you have "heart-knowledge," you obey what you know.

I have found that when I obey the scriptures that I understand, God grants deeper understanding. If my knowledge doesn't lead to obedience, my understanding doesn't increase.

In my opinion, there is no place where this is more obvious than in eschatology. Many of these so-called "teachers of prophecy" have the newspaper in one hand and a Bible (or reference list of proof-texts) in the other. They are doing the same thing as Miss Cleo, just to a different audience. The important thing is living the life God wants you to live, so that you will become more and more like Christ. Speculating on the date that Jesus may return does not further that end. Eschatological squabbles have done NOTHING to strengthen either the church or the people doing the squabbling. The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy (Revelation 19:10). His testimony was the establishment on earth of the Kingdom of God, and our duty to become citizens fit to live in it.

In response to your question, "If these people aren't the real Jews, why would satan try to destroy them?" I'd like to suggest that the number of Jews murdered by the Nazis is probably over-inflated. I'd also point out that there was a huge number of Christians and political dissidents who were murdered by the Nazis, and these people have been largely forgotten by the "Holocaust Industry" that seeks to remind the world only of the hardships suffered by the Jews.

As for your subsequent questions, Paul addresses them in Romans. The ancient Jews had some advantages, but whether Jew, Greek, Khazar, Arab, or what-have-you, God saves through faith. Jesus redeemed us to God by his blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (Revelation 5:9). He does not have one plan for one people-group, and a different plan for another. There is one flock and one shepherd. One Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in all.(Ephesians 4:5-6) If God saves some from EVERY kindred, and tongue, and nation, etc. then it seems clear from Scripture that there will be at least one Khazar, at least one modern-day "Jew," at least one Libyan, etc. Sincerity has nothing to do with it. Nor does lineage.